Thought I'd create a new thread for this topic, as it seems to be coursing through several others.

Should the divorce become contentious next season, I was wondering how it might play out. It won't of course, since Don has much more to lose than Betty. When Don came clean about his past, he (and many of us) thought Betty might have forgiven him. How wrong we all were.

Whatever's Betty's motivations; lying, adultary, class hierarchy, housewife malaise, etc., his true identity is the one bullet Betty has in her arsenal, but it's just short of a doomsday weapon.
At her request, Francis could certainly have the Army dig up Dick Whitman's indocrination records, and have the MP's haul him off to Leavenworth. But a sensational story like that would almost certainly make the papers, (Army Deserter Leads Secret Double Life!) and the fallout could taint Betty, their children, perhaps government seizure of their assets. And once the press gets going, it could eventually get back to Francis, leading to perhaps even Rockefeller himself, who already took the blows over one broken marriage that year.

So, barring that scenario, how would it go? Francis has no idea yet what he's stepped into, and I think if Betty were to tell him everything, the politico in him will drop her like a hot potato. He, personally, might be willing to take the slings and arrows for his part in breaking up some anonymous marriage, but will he risk a scandal being connected to a presidential contender's run? I doubt Rocky would think so.

So where does that leave us? Betty's liferaft would be gone, and now she would have to come back after Don. He may consider her 6-week abandonment of the kids too much, and decide to fight in court after all.
Betty could claim the adultary angle, but I don't think she could possibly prove it. I am trying to remember just how many women Betty would know about. All I can think of is Bobbi Barrett, and she only got that info 2nd hand from a sneering Jimmy Barrett. The only "collaboration" she got was Don's, "I didn't respect you" line. I'm sure Betty probably thinks he's had more women than he actually has (including dowdy delivery nurses.) Bobbi still has Jimmy's career and TV show to worry about, and I doubt she'd ever testify truthfully, in open court, to an affair.

Who else is there for Betty to subpoena?
Midge: Betty never knew about her.
Rachel Menkin:  Same, and newly married Rachel has too much to lose to admit it, anyway.
Anna Draper: Possibly, but their relationship never seemed to be sexual, and it would risk opening the aforementioned can of worms.
Miss Farrell: This is where it would get dicey. While she probably would lie for Don (hey, he'll be single soon, right?), her brother would have no problem spilling his guts for the right amount of money. And he's got Don's business card to prove a tenues connection.

On Don's side:
The Psychiatrist: "Yes, Mrs. Draper suffers from several deep emotional issues and delusions..."
The Neighbor: "She once went nuts, came out with a loaded gun, and started shooting at my homing pidgeons!"
Mona Sterling: "She once had me apply her lipstick because her own hands wouldn't obey. She asked me if it was normal?"
Carla: "Mrs. Draper has me watch the children most of the time. Even when she's home, she mostly takes care of herself. Always cold and distant with the children, when she's not yelling at them for something. I took care of the two oldest fulltime, when she flew off to Reno with a strange man for six weeks.
"I can't comment as to Mr. Draper's parenting skills, as I usually leave when he gets home. But I know he is a good provider, and the children never seem mistreated by him. I think he shows his children the love that they don't get from their mother."
Francine: "She didn't want to have little Gene. She told me she was considering finding an ABORTION doctor."
Betty's Brother: "She tried to cozy up to our dad before he died, took his Lincoln, and now she's trying to screw me out of my inheritance. Talking with our dad's lawyer behind my back!"

This, along with a possible golden oratory from Don, upstanding citizen and business leader, about how he still cares for her, even after all this, would seal the deal for him. The divorce may go through, but Betty would get nothing, except committed, possibly.

Other thoughts?

I don't think she's gonna roll on Don.  I also don't think she has much leverage.  Statute of limitations probably ran out on whatever his crimes were--he didn't kill anybody.

A good lawyer would make a reasonable scenario seem very plausible and Don would probably suffer little anyway.

Don's lucky this played out the way it did.  If he takes her back, which I could see, I'd be upset.  I know he will be considering the kids but I just like the idea very much of him being freed up, living in the city and whatnot.

I do seem them divorcing.

Don will be busy with the new agency and will have a new zest for life.

Betty will marry Francis and soon discover that something is still not right.  Betty will be awakened from her sleep.  I am eager to see how this will play out.  She just may become a self actualized person.  I hope so.  Of course, she could just remain unhappy and live a life of quiet desperation as many did back then.  Maybe become a real alcoholic.  I hope not.

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I like that.  She enjoys an early cocktail quite often.  Henry Francis will be around less than Don.  He's not gonna want to play daddy to 3 young kids.

The same way Don was like 'It's Hilton.  Gotta go.'  Henry is gonna be like 'It's the governor.  Gotta go.'  Only Henry will do it more often.  He's probably got a depper rolodex of bored married chicks than we think...

I might put a few dollars on alcoholic as well.

I definitely see alcoholism and continued housewife-ly isolation in Betty's future. She'll be no happier w/ Henry than she was with Don. I know the show will probably have to continue to have her included in some fashion, but if it doesn't - fine by me!  Don't like the character or the actor (sorry Jan Jones - I think you're gorgeous but just can't relate to your acting). Think it's possible Henry will drop her like a hot potato... now that he's got her.  C'mon, how can he possibly 'love' her? They barely know each other! She's essentially a child and Don's better off without her.

I just posted this on the other thread, but I think it's possible they are dumping J Jones.  The show is about the "mad men," right?  The advertising guys and yes, their women, but not their EX-women. I don't believe Jones can show us Betty "coming alive" in the sixties.  She just doesn't have the chops.

She's a big character.  The show is about a lot of things, including Betty Draper.

If she is not signed, I could see them writing around her.  But this Henry Francis thing is an interesting storyline and I want to see it play out.

I love that Don is getting a divorce out of it, but I also hope they keep Betty around. 

Weiner used to write for the Sopranos.  While it was a mob show, it was also a show about Tony's blood family and wife.  I expect them to treat this like when Carmela kicked Tony out.  Madmen is about Trudy and Dr. Greg and all of the spouses, as much as it is about the guys @ the agency.

Don has been kicked out before and Betty was still featured.  I think they will continue to do it like that.

You are prolly right that Betz will stay on in some fashion.  Then again, I'm just terrible at predicting shows & never even try!  I've been wrong about 'Lost' so many times... crazy!!  As long as they give us plenty of great plot angles, I guess I'm happy with whomever they keep around for another season.

Don said he wasn't going to contest the divorce in his phone call, I don't see any reason to doubt that. Unless something unforseen happens, they'll split without a battle.

If they dump Jones, another beautiful "leading lady" type will join the cast in a big role.  You have to have one and without Jones, they don't.  I think they got a lot out of the character Betty, but her life on her own is just not relevant to the show, and that will be the "excuse" that is used for her exit. 

The true reason is that the actress can't pull it off.  There is mutiny in the ranks/the audience.  Hollywood and Hollywood writers are finely attuned to the focus groups and public reaction.  They will not ignore it. It's one thing to be depressed and repressed and all of that, but another to be completely wooden at all times.  Compare Jones to a young Meryl Streep in the role.  Then you would have seen some warmth, some depth.  jmo of course

The "doomsday weapon" is anything but. I am former military and have confirmed with a JAG that the statute of limitations ran out on Don's desertion 5 years after 3 years after the end of hostilities...so about 1960. He is free and clear on that account, the Army would not and could not pursue him.

There MIGHT be a civil case on taking Don Draper's identity, but that would have to be pursued by the real Don's family...ie Anna. She isn't going to do it.

As for the public fall out? Yep...there would be some...but it's less important now with Don starting is own firm.  It would be a big story, Don's not a war hero but a deserter? But it would blow over. And just like Cooper, those who know how good Don is at his job would come back. Business is business.

sstnt, thanks for that info! That does change things via the divorce. But I think the business end would still suffer.
This will now be 1964. The Cold War is at it's peak. School kids are still doing their "duck and cover" exercises. In my neighborhood, an air raid test siren went off at noon every day. Bummer if the Russkies ever bombed us at lunchtime.
My point is, patriotism is still at a fever pitch and won't begin to wain for a couple of years yet. Moral character was still valued. (No one would have even thought of something like bankruptcy as a viable business strategy, unlike today.)
I think anyone SCD&P does business with, who was probably in the service themselves, would likely not care to sully themselves doing business with a known deserter, no matter how talented.

BECKY!!!!!

Hey.  Whenever I glance quickly at your avatar, I always see a syringe.  Thought I'd tell you that.  Anyway, beg to differ about your comments above.

I think Betty's life is relevant to the show.  She had 3 kids with Don, and Don is already feeling that guilt about not being around as a father...I think Don will not fade from the family picture.

Also, she and Don travel in the same social circles.  There are going to be some parties that both Don and Henry Francis are invited to.

As far as the wooden January Jones...she has a lot of fans.  She probably brought more fans to the table than anyone @ the start and she definitely picked up some points in a lot of circles for canning Don.  Also, the show is finely directed.  She acts according to the direction.  She's playing the stoic debutante 15 yrs later to a tee.

I don't think it was another thing to be completely wooden 45 years ago.

crack I agree.  I think she does a fine job and is doing what she is directed to do.  Many back then were wound a little too tight and remember, the Beatles hadn't even arrived yet!

Much more to come, you'll see!

This show is as much about the politics and social norms of the time as it is about a bunch of guys in an ad agency, and that includes the roles their wives play in their lives.
I agree that January Jones is somewhat wooden, and another actress may be able to do more justice to the role and assert more stifled emotion. I'm not sure Jones has many emotions (that show anyway). I realize she is playing a stifled character, a repressed woman. However, it is possible to have emotion pulse through that repressed veneer.
I would love to see her battle this repression, and break out on her own. I can't wait to see what happens once Henry Francis starts exhibiting similar (yet worse) traits as Don. I think we'll see what Betty is really made of when she either decides to try and get Don back, or becomes a stronger woman...

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Good comments, heidrogen.  When you say 'and another actress may be able to do more justice to the role...'

Are you referring to the leading lady of the show role, or a different actress playing Betty?

I think emotion does make it through the veneer.  She was emotional when Don was hugging Bobby--the breakup with the family scene.

The fact that Betty is not a nice person is not the fault of the actress.  It's not January Jones fault that her character goaded some 'cougar' into sleeping with Arthur or that she went out and shot at the birds, or that she leaves those kids with 'Calpurnia' all the time.

That said, I thought Maggie Siff was great as Rachel Mankin.  I'd have no problem if her husband died and she ran into Don and they started up again, although I know she is currently starring on a show and is signed fairly long term.  But Rachel Mankin was likeable and her character background...jewish, a powerful woman...just more compelling than Betty.

Betty knows how to ride a horse and she knows which fork to use when...and that's the point of her character.  She's a trophy wife, and no more.  If Don had a real wife and still cheated, it would be like rooting for Tony Soprano all over again.

I couldn’t’ agree more with Crackheads’s comments.  I knew an attractive woman JUST like Betty.  Three kids, former model and she was like a deer caught in the headlights – all the time.  She was a ‘flat’ actress only in real life.  There’s a real life match for Betty in LA and who knows maybe Jones fashioned herself after this cartoon woman. 

As Jones moves on in with her acting career we’ll see if she’s a one-note-wonder but I think she hit it out of the ball park as Betty.  Was she a good actress?  If you remember and still hate the character a year from now the answer will be clear.

James, you have the best pic...did you like Kinsey's reaction when he came in and realized Don left?

I think Betty thought she was empowered...I called a divorce attorney...I suggest you do the same...blah blah blah.

But as Sterling so well put it about SC, she's jumping from one John's bed to another.  No more.  Henry is making all her decisions, the same way Don did.  Advising her against alimony?  The old "I'll take care of you" BS line...

She likes that.  She's like one of the kids who needs to be taken care of.  Rachel Mankin and that hippie chick didn't need to be taken care of.  Or the teacher or Bobbi Barrett.

JJ will go down as a good actress.  She already has.  She's been a working actress in tv & film for a long time.  And she's hit a home run, the same way Jon Hamm has.

I keep going back to the Sopranos...so here I go again.  I think most people rooted for Tony even though he was morally reprehensible.  Don makes mistakes, but he is not morally reprehensible.  Betty helps us view Don's mistakes in a more human way, for all her shortcomings.

If Don sat Roger down and said 'here's what's going on at home...my wife has a crush on a 12 yr boy and she gave him a locke of her hair and she tried to go to the club w/o me dressed like a whore...'

Among other things that Don didn't know, like that shit @ the stables and the random guy she let nail her on the eve of the missile crisis.  Don forgives Betty's problems.

He understands how immature she is.  Betty says to Don "I know all about you."  In fact, she still knows almost nothing.  She doesn't even know he started a new firm.  But yes, I agree most definitely that she is a very good actress and I hope the role continues to flourish.

Okay James, you're on.  We'll all see.

I don't disagree with anything that has been said about the character of Betty or the direction, etc. Brilliant on all counts.  It's the acting I find painful.

I have to turn my head when Henry and Betty kiss.  Ken and Barbie miss three days of meds.

It's all very subjective, isn't it?  I also don't like Kevin Costner, Demi Moore, or Ben Affleck.  To me, when a scene is going forward and one of those opens their mouths to give a line, everything falls flat.  The whole film sputters. It's like they're in a bubble chamber or a hermetically sealed mayonnaise jar and the power ruuuunnnnns dooooooooooown.

Hey crack---a syringe?  You're giving me a Rohrschach test I can't pass, buddy.  I can't see the syringe.  I'm lookin'.  I'm too dumb to get another avatar and I wasted too much time on it already, so that's why.

did you like Kinsey's reaction when he came in and realized Don left?


I loved the look when he opened Betty’s door with the thought “Damn I wasn’t worth taking,” and “Shit! With Peggy gone who’s going to cover for my lack of creativity.”

Becky - I agree with your hate list - all cringers.

Funny thing is that when you listen to the DVDs with commentary and John Hamm is giving his insight WOW dose he sound like a Mimbo.  I know it’s hard to fill time with an hour of talking so I will cut him some slack but both my wife and I were taken aback by how dumb he sounded talking about what he just ate etc. 

I was hoping the TV Show V would live up to the good reviews - its old and predictable after the second episode.  And they felt the need to explain everything, that's what made MM so great it treated you like an adult.

Becky,

You are way ahead.  I can't get one at all!  But I see the bottom of a syringe, the lower half, when I look at yours. 

It's just what it looks like to me.  Wouldn't even know what to do with one anyway. 

I gotta say though...I disagree about some of the above.  She creates a mood...a definite tension.  People around here are calling her the Ice Queen or some such thing...that is tangible.

They've got her playing the part.  How much can an actress do with this role: stoic, picturesque, but no substance?

She's done a good job.  I agree with James.  If you don't like her, or she irks you, then she is hitting the target.

And I agree that the actors you name, except JJ, are bad ones.

I think at times J. Jones is pretty good. But for me, the show's other characters are more interesting.. and the other actors are far, far better. As someone who works in marketing & advertising, I'm generally more interested in what goes on w/ the business side of the show, and the cultural references. Betty's dramas seem rather dull to me. Maybe the actor, maybe the character... probably both. As for Henry, what a dork!

So I guess it's all a matter of personal taste, after all.

Becky, I have to agree with you about JJ's acting skills. There's not much there.  With great writing and good direction she just barely makes it.  But it really is a little unfair to compare her to the great Meryl Streep who can act just about anybody off the stage, past or present. 

James:  I too was struck at how mimbo-y Jon Hamm sounds in real life.  I've seen him in another interview and he is definitely inarticulate.  But he sure can act up a storm!

I saw Jon Hamm on 30Rock some time ago and he played a hapless-doofus guy who can't do anything right.  He was so completely different and antithetical to Don Draper that I could barely watch.  I would reserve my judgment on his acting ability until I see him in something else.

He is brilliant as DD.  Powerful, mesmerizing, earth-shaking.  I can't say enough about him.  He is the reason I watch the show (and swoon).

Not having seen her in anything else, I can't say anything about the relative merits of her acting skills.  She has created a Betty that has always struck me as spoiled, filled with ennui and self-centered.  She struck me as being the most engaged with life when she and Don were in Rome.  She knew something Don didn't (the language) and seemed somewhat more comfortable in her own skin, as though her emotional constipation had passed once she was freed of the duties of hearth and home.

Betty never struck me as someone who enjoyed motherhood and all it entailed.  If you're of a certain age, you may recall grandparents or parents who, during a time of crisis, would say something like "I didn't live through the war/depression just to have to deal with THIS."  That seems to be her sentiment - she went to college, got educated, gave up her job and for what - this?

During Season One, she and Don struck me as in many way being two sides of the same coin. Both seemed to ask the same question -  "I have everything, I'm living the good life - but if that's true, why am I not happy?"

There are lots of actors who play brilliant roles that are as dumb and dull as dishwater in real life.
A couple I can name off the top of my head are William Shatner and Darrell Hammond. Both really, really suck in interviews.
But the difference here with January Jones, is that she's not acting, she's just reacting. And barely doing that. Ok, maybe it is unfair to imagine what Meryl Streep could do with the role, but you know that under the stoney exterior you'd see her emotions roiling. Not so with JJ. You get only 3 displays from her. A vacantly happy look, vacantly confused, or vacantly pissy. I bet she was thought of as great in her high school drama club, but the only thing that's carried her in Hollywood so far is her looks. But of course that's par for the course in Hollywood, isn't it? Think Marilyn Monroe, Jane Mansfield, or any number of more recent examples that can't act their way out of a paper bag. But they look good, so we forgive them. (Which was the point of that 30-Rock episode btw. Hamm looked so good, no one would tell him he was a complete screwup, and GL people like him can usually get whatever they want.)

People's love/hate opinions of JJ remind me of Andy Kaufman. Many thought he was unfunny and a complete idiot. Others defended him as a comedy genius, and if you didn't get it, it was because you were just too uncool.

I liked Andy Kaufman - especially with the "Mighty Mouse" schtick.

To each his own. I prefer a more cerebral George Carlin.

I didn't get Andy Kaufman.  I wanted to.  I watched him turn on the record player and wait for the record to drop down and play the Mighty Mouse song.  I expected it to be funny.  As you sat there and waited, you thought, well, is this funny?  For me, no.  It was more drama than comedy, wasn't it?  He wanted it so badly.  That was what was supposed to be funny.  Kind of cruel, really.

I agree. As a member of the Diversity Committee of a college, I would be foaming at the mouth if a man treated women/ minorities the way DD does on screen. I've been ashamed to admit it even to myself for a long time, but his presence is so mesmerizing that I can't keep my eyes off him. (No, and it's not just his looks - I find Sterling loathsome.)

I'm further ashamed to admit that I silently tell Betty to stick with him, whatever his faults. After all, he's basically protective of his family - and oh... so charismatic. Yes, Betty is a product of her times, but comes across as a sulky ingrate princess who leaves the "hard work" to others so she can float through life looking perfect.

I haven't seen JJ in other roles, so can't comment on her ability as an actress - one note samba or playing the character she's meant to depict? In either case she's good for the part.

OK new thread for the non-MM forum - favorite comedians.

How about this as a scenario...

Something happens to Betty. Perhaps she becomes physically debilitated. Or enters a sanitorium. While she's still married to Don. And Don continues to take care of her as the mother of his children.

The thing is, Don's womanizing is really only compelling if there's the tension of a marriage in the equation. A single man sleeping around just isn't as "dramatic". Without Betty, where does Don's dramatic tension come from? His past can no longer supply that tension.

The purpose he serves in the drama is to be the "flawed hero". His flaws are his womanizing, his past and his drinking/smoking. So unless drinking/smoking is going to be his thing next year, he needs to womanize. And in order to womanize dramatically, there needs to be a primary relationship in his life.

Maybe he'll cheat on the teacher with Betty.

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Interesting theory, Adgal.  See, I thought that, and going into the finale I was expecting the reconciliation, just like last year.

If this is just a plot twist and Don and Betty will stay together, I'd say 'damn, you got me good.'

The divorce process is not complete, and they could get back after the divorce, but I think it plausible that a Betty type marry into some political power broker's family...she perceives a trade up because she is all bent on Don's Dick Whitman past and here's this guy all gaga for her.

There's lots of possibilities with Don.  Now he can be cheating on girls he's actually sleeping with on a regular basis.  He's gonna be juggling women hardcore.  Don is not a fool.  He's got money.  And he's the mizz-an!  He is gonna tear Manhattan up.  Chicks are gonna be throwing their panties at him.  Remember this, too.  Don told his brother that time, that he lived his life in one direction: forward.  That's his philosophy.  He aint gonna be sitting around woe is me.  He called Betty like the next day before lunch and was like 'I want you to know I won't fight you.'  He's out.  He aint gonna dwell.  If Betts gets back in the picture, it will have been a real slow day for Don!

Don is gonna be out with clients in the city every night while Betty is at republican fund raisers.  That's so fitting that they made her a republican too, btw.

I don't see Don and Betty getting back together for anything other than kids birthdays. The marriage is done.
That said, I have absolutely no idea where the storyline is going to go next year. I just hope they don't skip any more years. I'd hate to see it open in 1970 with Don in a mod haircut, muttonchops, and porn mustache.

For some reason I did not even notice him at ALL. I mean I do remember one episode where him and John Slattery comment on the "Red in The Face" Episode and I found that the two of them to not just have good on screen interaction but also apparently off screen. 
I find Christina Hendricks' comments very interesting.  Elisabeth Moss on the other hand wouldn't shut up!

Sorry for the off topic!

I don't think she's bent on Dick Whitman's past. I think it goes deeper than that. I think she feels her entire marriage is a lie. Everything he was from the day they met was a lie. He kept this past from her on purpose, knowing it could change the game. He violated the trust in their marriage...in many ways.

I get that most people are "pro-Don". But if you've ever been in a relationship where one party is cheating, you know how it is. They tell you you're crazy for suspecting they're cheating. You start feeling like you're crazy. The whole experience is demeaning.

I'm not saying January Jones is a good actress or that Betty did everything right and Don did everything wrong. But I am saying that there's a very complex psyche behind someone who's been cheated on for 10 years. It's similar to abuse. So I'm not surprised Betty is cold. I'm not surprised that she'd run off with another man. I'm not surprised she's unhappy with her life. She bears responsibility for being involved with a philanderer and Don bears responsibility for having a cold wife.

Anyway, I think that's why she left. You can only bear that kind of internal pain for so long. I just don't think it's as simple as her not accepting Dick Whitman. I think it's the decade of lying about Dick Whitman that really got her... on top of everything else.

I wish I could remember where I read the interview with MWeiner.  It was recent and I'm sure google-able.  He said the Draper marriage is ovah.  So I have to take that as the horse's mouth.  But he also said he didn't really know what was going to happen. 

I think we all know big changes are coming.  People are going to toke up joints, smoke the demon weed, purchase bell bottom pants and bongs.  Some will take to it well.  There will be protests and sit-ins and love-ins.  Maybe no decade ever had that many changes. 

I can see Peggy falling in love hard with somebody, not that doofus Duck.  Maybe Don.  Who wouldn't?  God, they need another cute guy if you ask me.  But adgal, I agreed with what you said about needing the tension of Don's womanizing and needing a wife or a main girlfriend in place to make that tension.  Maybe somebody at the office like Peggy--then every time he tells her he's going home and he's really going out with a girl, we can have that same "you scumbag!" satisfying feeling we had when he was with Betty.  Maybe Joan....yikes, Roger wouldn't like that at all, would he?

I think this is the Interview you're thinking of Becky.  It's well worth the read.