At least we now have where we can discuss season 4, I was wondering.... we are still at season three?

Thanks

We are about a week away from the MM season 4 premiere, Sunday July 25th @ 10:00PM ET on AMC.
In reference to season 4, do you think that SCDP will hire Sal as their art director?

No. Unfortunately Bryan Batt said he did not get a callback from the producers for season 4. Very unfortunate, in my opinion. His struggle in the closet made for some terrific scenes.

Am I the only one who didn't like Sal's character?

Ever since the first season, all he did was say his lines in the sort of tone that made your skin crawl, you know? 

I enjoyed the scenes with his wife, especially the one where he did that ad pitch for her, and without speaking a word, you knew that she knew he was gay.  That was good writing.

But as far as character development is concerned, they went as far as they could with Sal.  Don is a man with secrets of his own, and he was willing to let sleeping dogs lie after that glimpse he caught from the fire escape; but when Sal unintentionally blew it with Lucky Strike, the one client that could "put out [Sterling Cooper's] lights," Don had no choice but to cut him loose.  To him, Sal was that corpse knocking against Sterling-Cooper's hull. 

An executive would have likely done the same to any underling.  The only difference in this instance was the "You people!" line Don added.  That seemed a little vicious.  But hey, it was 1963, right?

I can't wait to watch the new season.  I love this show.  I hope that Don will be honest with his coworkers about his past.  Cooper and Pete know his secret already.  It would be very interesting to see Don tell Peggy about his past.  As well, I can not wait to see how Peggy and Pete work together on future accounts.

Peggy and Pete are temporarily sharing a desk, but she's creative and he's there to wine and dine the clients, mostly.  The dynamic between her and Don is going to change a lot, though.  He bared his soul to her, pretty much, and he won't be able to return to his old ways.

I want to see more of Joan and Roger. The fact that they will be working so closely brings a lot see.....

Think you could land a job at SCDP? Answer the job interview questions at AMC, http://www.amctv.com/orig ...

I agree with WhiteBread about Sal.   I think our empathy for his tragic closeted life overshadowed that he was one of the smarmer guys in the office.  His art, as far as I remember it wasn’t that remarkable nor were his contributions to any campaigns.   I think the most underestimated talent is Pete who I’ve always been rooting for.  With the demise / distance from his screwy family that no doubt tainted his character, hopefully he will grow into his own man even more so at the new firm.   Plus Pete has the best wife on the show.  I would rather be married to Trudy than anyone else in MM.

As years go on I would like to think that they do finally adopt a child.

Now that Don is going through tough times, the separation involving him and Betty, his identity and clandestine found out, the question begs…… does Don need help? Perhaps from his best time equal, Bobbie Barrett?

Or will he revert back to his standby, "My life only goes in one direction. Forward."? From the promo pics of him driving a shiny new red convertable, I'm guessing that might be the case. At least until Betty comes back for alimony or whatever.

I cant read any of these posts because I need the first show to unfold without any ideas put into my head. 

I
CAN'T
WAIT !!!!

Does anyone think there's a chance that Pete and Peggy will get together again?

So we're agreed, James - Sal was worthless and Mad Men is better off without him.

I agree with you about Pete.  I'm the same age as his character was in the first season, and we share a number of traits, so I've felt an affinity with him since the beginning.

When it comes to Trudy, I think it's because I've felt sorry for her and how Pete treats her that I haven't considered her a "fantasy spouse."  She's always so positive and upbeat, and her parents seem to be just as pleasant, even generously ponying up the cash so the two newlyweds could get the apartment they wanted.  And all the while, there's Pete, cheating on her left and right. 

Also, I had never seen that Community show people kept talking about, and I didn't even know the real name of the actress who plays Trudy -- so I looked her up on imdb.com, and then did a YouTube search and found footage of her.  And yeah, she's a real hottie.  Her normal look appeals to me a lot more than the buttoned-down, prim and proper thing she has on the show.  Really cute girl. 

So yeah, I'd take her as a wife too.  You can have Monday through Wednesday and I'll take her Thursday through Sunday.

Who the hell got this before Sunday?

http://www.youtube.com/wa ...

Where have you seen Anna Camp (Bethany, Don's date) before? As Sarah Newlin, on last season's True Blood.

Who are you, her agent?

Ok, they did what I feared they would do. Jumped ahead again 11 months in the storyline to the end of 1964. I like the button-down early 60's vibe, and am in no hurry for them to get into the Mod mid-60's. That's been done to death already.

So SCD&L is operating on a shoe-string budget (can't even afford a conference table.) Don's living in a crappy little apartment, with lamps all over that seem to have only 5 watt bulbs in them.
Betty's well on her way to becoming Mommy Dearest.
Hate the new artwork guy. He's no Sal.
Things started to look good at the very end, though. Don realized he needs to sell himself, and make SCD&L the "client" for now.

You're right, he's no Sal.  But I don't think that's a bad thing.  Maybe now their copy will be free of all of the homo-erotic undertones. 

After losing the High-Line (or whatever it is) contract, Harry's comment about wanting to jump off a higher floor was probably an allusion to how he was supposed to meet his demise in the first season.

Ha Ha White Bread.  It was jai-alai.  That prick HoHo wanted to piss away his trust fund and they were very glad to take his money.

Yeah, I knew I had that wrong.  Jai-Alai.  Got it.  Thanks.

I will miss Sal. I enjoyed watching how everyone else related to him when he was so obviously gay. I guess the fact he was married helped everyone, including his wife, accept his eccentric behaviour.
White Bread, you are right about the scene with his wife, when he was singing Bye Bye Birdie (I think) she looked petrified!
I do hope they bring him back. I also would like to see him come out of the closet. DRAMA!

How about if Trudy found out about Peggy and Pete's child? I have that in the back of my mind, but that could be a twenty years in the future event.

Yes, I think Peggy is brilliant. One of the reasons in this episode was the comment Peggy made to Don about everyone trying to please him. After that he went to the Wall Street Journal interview with such confidence/arrogance. Sure he made the interview before her comment and after wanting clients to appease him and not the other way around-however, I think her comment helped him be more honest with that persona he has developed as a mad man. I hope for some more biting remarks to Don from Peggy-I always love those!

Lee Garner; what a piece of work! Making everyone there dance and cowtow to him. Roger certainly has no more love for him. I was thinking that of everyone there, only Don knows his secret. And his behavior only reinforced what Sal had told him about Lee being a bully.
I wonder if/when Lucky Strike is no longer their bread & butter, will Don out him somehow?

Yeah, Sal was great. Interesting character and a good actor playing him.

Maybe when the Lucky Strike account blows up (and it looks like it's heading that way), the exiles will hire him.

“…about Lee being a bully.”  He’s a sadistic bully that reminds me of the bulldog from the LooneyToons cartoon who was always devising some elaborate torture mechanism for the cat.  His “hah hah hah” as he took the poloroids and grabbing Jane were gut wrenching.   I’ll bet he finds other uses for that poloroid for his sexual bullying.

Something interesting I observed today: AMC aired Charlie Wilson's War, where, for the second day in a row, John Slattery wore a Santa costume at an office party.

Very interesting indeed.
I was mortified for Roger but he handled it well. Was Don impressed or disgusted? I can't wait for Lee to get cut down to size for what he did to Roger, who in some Karmic sense was getting his just desserts.

Well, I can't wait~~

What do we think of Freddie Rumsen's return?

There certainly seems to be somthing conspiratory to his behaviour.

i'd gladly trade rummy (freddie runmsen) for sal anyday of the week!

How cute were Don and Lane at the movie theatre? I also found it supremely amusing that after going through the listing of great movies while at the office they ended up seeing Godzilla.

I always love seeing an Anna episode. Don + Anna '64 on the wall brought a tear to my eye!



I have a question for everyone, particularly those who were adults in the 60's--I know that there was somewhat of a stigma attached to being divorced in those days, but how exactly were divorcee's viewed? Was there a difference between how divorced men and divorced women were viewed? Don's line to Stephanie, "why not just call me single" (not verbatim) got me thinking about this. People keep talking about Don losing his mojo, but maybe he just lost some kind of status. On his date with Bethany, she says something about not usually going out with divorced men or something like that. Can anyone enlighten me?

I am 44 and was just a babe in the 60’s.  I do remember growing up in the Midwest and learning what kids had parents who were “DIVORCED!”  In elementary school I watched the show The Odd Couple.  Oscar and his ex-wife went out on a date and seemed friendly with each other.  How can that be I thought?  Divorce is just short of murdering eachother.  It’s the last resort reserved for two people who hate eachother.  If that’s the case I thought it meant that the ex-spouses should be mortal enemies for life.   

I don’t know what the stigma was for adults who were divorced but I was leery about seeing the home life of classmates whose parents were divorced.  I thought the house must have been like a battle field with smoldering craters and spent ammo shells lying about.

Don seems to be in better health this season. He didn't pass out when he visited California this time.

@ James: I'm 44 too, and was raised Catholic so I don't remember being around many divorced people when I was kid. I was wondering if this possible stigma is one of the reasons why Don keeps striking out this season. I should just ask my mom, lol.

Don seems to be hitting on only the very young this season, and perhaps this is another reason for the string of rejections lately. With a growning emphasis on youth in society (remember Peggy saying to Freddy that no young woman wants beauty tips from an older lady?), Don is probably beginning to seem like a  lecherous old fuddy duddy (Stephanie's comment about it being less creepy to hitchhike springs to mind) .  Isn't this around the time when young people start saying "Never trust anyone over 30?"

I expect to see more clashes in the office between the old guard and the young movers and shakers. Harry eludes to this in the sneak peak when talking about K. Cosgrove to Pete, and how they are all "coming up together".

Does it seem to anyone else that Don is turning into the guy he warned Pete about in Ep. 101?
"Advertising is a very small world. And when you do something like malign the reputation of some girl from the steno pool on her first day, you make it even smaller. Keep it up and even if you do get my job, you'll never run this place. You'll die in that corner office: a mid-level account executive with a little bit of hair, who women go home with out of pity. Because no one will like you."

Yeah, I thought of that exact moment between Pete and Don in episode 101 when I watched Allison run crying from the office for all to see. 

She'll land on her feet.  Don will probably land on his face if the falling "shadow of an ad man" in the opening credits every weak is any indication.

I still think Freddie Rumsen is  up to no good. SCDP have lost several accounts now.

Ok, it's to the point now where I'm hoping the writers will lay off of Sally, just for the sake of the little actress playing her. I felt slimy just watching the last episode. Ick.

Interesting thoughts on the emerging obsession with youth.  We see it with Betty and Henry too.  He obviously was looking for a young hot lady to make his wife.  He had the stigma of a divorce as well.  It's depressing to see Don sinking like this.  I don't like to see him losing his cool. 

I love the show so much.  I'm dying to be a part of it.  I entered the casting call contest.  If anyone would kindly throw a vote my way, I'd be so grateful.

http://bit.ly/d5cb1O

Thanks!

@mneely490:

Yeah. Ick. Icky. I squirmed, too. However, it's an interesting subject! Just, not so sure I wanna deal with it regarding 10 yr. olds. I'm not a parent, but I'm guessing today's parents are perhaps a little more cool with it? My friends that have kids of that age have mentioned a few things about their pubescence; they are amazed by the growth of their children but otherwise seem unfazed, and I admire/respect them.

I remember this one time, I was babysitting as a teen, and the little 2-ish yr old that I was watching started humping her teddy bear! She was really into it and I was freaked, to say the least (this was in the late 80's). I know now that this is nothing to be freaked out about. How do parents handle it these days? What do you people (lol @ myself... "you people". I mean, parents!) say to children re: this so-called taboo subject?

Interesting flashbacks in ep.406. Don gets hired by Roger during an alcoholic blackout. Or did he???

Did it seem to anyone else that besides the coloring of younger Rogers hair, he seemed a bit skinnier, and his nose sharper? Almost a Benjamin Button-like effect. Are they playing with CGI on Mad Men?

james, your comments about sal brand you as a homophoic ass.

In ep 406, the flashbacks of how Don was hired seem to parallel how the "cure for the common " guy got hired? Interesting....

"james, your comments about sal brand you as a homophoic ass."

Oh, rnch stop with your branding - I'll fess up to being an ocasional ass but not homophoic.

I do not have a a phobia of other people's sexuality.   For the record here is the definition of phobia-

A phobia (from the Greek: φόβος,phóbos, meaning "fear" or "morbid fear") is an irrational, intense and persistent fear of certain situations, activities, things, animals, or people.

To recap my personal opinion  - I find flaming ultra fem homosexuals to be taxing and annoying. 

Sooo  does that mean I am fearful or poses a  phobia?   I also find ultra macho heterosexual football fans who bump their beer guts at games and say things like “Da Bears, Dick Butkus is Da Man!” to be equally annoying.   To each his own and that includes someone personal tastes in wine, books, personality traits, values and cultures. 

I am positive that based on your last few posts I would find you far more annoying than any over the top flaming gay guy that I have ever seen in film or TV.   Your bumper sticker rhetoric and one liners are not only stupid they are Booooorrrring.

@mneeley490:

Interesting comment about the "youthanizing" of Roger. I watched those scenes very closely, because I was quite interested in how exactly they would make him (and the other characters) appear that much younger. I thought they did a good job. To me, the hair played into it a lot--both Roger and Don seemed to have longer hair (50's style?) and Joan looked fab too with her Marilyn thing going on. Roger did appear to have fewer lines on his face and a younger (pre-heart attack) complexion. I chalk it up to make-up, and of course MM didn't win an Emmy for hairstyling for nothing. CGI? I'm not sure, but I'm not an expert on these things...

And just out of curiousity...how old does everyone peg Roger? His premature grey ages him a bit, but I'm guessing anywhere between late 40's to late 50's

I agree on Roger's age.  The hair fools you - My mom had the same Irish hair that went from black to gray overnight in her mid 30's. 

IMDB says John Slattery is about 48... with a little plastic surgery (in Hollywood?  Shocking!) he could easily look about 40 in real life.  IMDB's profile pic shows him at about that age IMHO.   The makeup crew is probably aging him for his normal appearances, so it was easy for them to make him look younger


I also agree on the hair... not only did it make them look younger, but it makes it clearer to the viewer that we're watching a flashback.  They've almost always given Dick Whitman that longer, non-slicked-back cut, even when Don's visiting Anna in CA.