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Administrator Currently Offline Posts: 59 Join Date: Sep 2008 |
Posted: 27 Oct 2008 05:43 Last Edited By: Don
Wow! Who's a bad person now? I did not think Betty for one second would actually go out and cheat on Don. I understand the man whom she tangled with was handsome ladies, and also Don has obviously cheated on her several times; however, Betty did not have any evidence of his affair, and I know some of you will bring this up, but Don only said he "did not respect her" when surprising Betty at the Equestrian center. I was born in the 80's so please inform me if "I did not respect you" translates to, "yes, I had an affair", in the 1960's.
I love the professional and rational nature of Peggy. The way she confessed to Pete about her being pregnant and having his baby, and then giving it away was such a powerful message. Duck didn't pull the trigger... I wonder if he'll be back shortly next season? How will the new Draper Baby influence the plot? Great Season, I can not wait for season 3; the lounge will be here waiting and ready until then. |
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Registered User Currently Offline Posts: 151 Join Date: Oct 2008 |
Posted: 27 Oct 2008 06:31
What a show! Too much to even begin to try and comment on using a mobile keyboard. More later.
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Registered User Currently Offline Posts: 9 Join Date: Oct 2008 |
Posted: 27 Oct 2008 09:00
Damn, this show is great! Every episode this season has left me wanting more - more answers & more show!
So the ark of the finale is shadowed by the missile crisis, forcing people to come clean & be truthful. Don admitted his dalliance to Betty, looking inside & knowing that he wants to continue his Draper life. Betty has an anonymous fling, indulging herself & taking her mind off her pregnancy. Perhaps it was a way to get back at Don, maybe it was just to see if she could do it. Don finally praises Peter, making his disappearance a 'test' that Pete passed. Peter repays him by telling him about Duck's role in the new firm. Unfortunately Duck screws himself in the meeting, showing his temper in front of the Brits because Don walks out. So Duck will be shuttled to the back burner, a president in name only. Switchboard Lois alerts the guys to the merger, warning them about redundancy. In Duck's vision, tv will have a greater importance. Oh Peter! Telling Peggy his feelings, only to be stunned by her admission. Peggy handles it so well, telling him how he made her feel. She tells Pete she gave the baby away, but isn't he with her sister? So the end of the season has Don & Betty back together. After she tells him she's pregnant, he offers his hand & she takes it. How I waited for him to say something! Anything! But of course the show left me wanting more, eager to see the third season. |
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Registered User Currently Offline Posts: 13 Join Date: Oct 2008 |
Posted: 27 Oct 2008 15:09
The finale was fantastic, love the writing and I am excited to see what Season 3 brings. Questions were answered and yet new questions lingered.
Don, regarding your above commment, I believe Betty's suspicions of her husbands extra marital affair were confirmed. She said something like "At least I wasn't going crazy" and Don never corrected her. As for Betty's one night stand, I knew it was coming several shows back but I think it was a moment of revenge and empowerment. It will be interesting to see if Betty continues her revenge one nighters as she and Don begin to work on their marriage. What I am still trying to put together is the signifigance of Betty looking in to the department store window at the mannequins prior to her entrance into the bar. As for Pete and Peggy...amazing scene. Peggy seemed to be able to sleep well after her confession and Pete was left holding a shot gun in his office. I doubt seriously Pete will commit suicide but it showed his character at an all time low. Pete just can't seem to win. The Sterling Cooper merger will fall through. Duck may remain as a character but most likely in a totally differnt position. As for Pete informing Don of Duck's presidency, I think Pete was playing both sides. As for Don telling Pete he felt he could handle the West Coast deal...I think it was just an excuse for Don, one that made Pete extremely happy. |
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Registered User Posts: 82 Join Date: Oct 2008 |
Posted: 27 Oct 2008 15:56
I agree... I think it was Pete, not Duck, holding the gun in the office. It was the gun he bought when he returned the wedding gift.
The scene with Peggy and Pete was brilliantly acted and written. I think this final episode is showing us how strong the women are and how weak the men are. Peggy gave birth to a child and either gave it away to a stranger or to her sister. She's been living—and triving—with that reality ever since. And Pete's the one who wants to commit suicide? Plus, Betty all but had Don begging for forgiveness. The power has switched from the men holding all the power to the women holding the power. Actually it never switched because it was there all along, it's just that women haven't seen it until now. Another thing I thought was funny was the whole contract thing. Apparently Duck had to sign a non-compete that made it so that he could never have another job in advertising if he left the firm (which is extremely rash). So he assumed Don had to sign one, too. But when they spoke of it, Don never signed a non-compete because, as Sterling said, "we liked each other." Also, the whole thing with Betty at the bar. You drop your children off with their father, buy yourself a couple of baubles, stop in a bar, have a drink and smoke when you're pregnant, and then proceed to the back room for a... "dalliance". How much more "low brow" can you get? All this wondering about who Don really is. But who are you, really, Betty Draper? |
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Registered User Currently Offline Posts: 13 Join Date: Oct 2008 |
Posted: 27 Oct 2008 16:46
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How much more "low brow" can you get? How about having an affair or one night stand with a married women as Don has done on so many occasions. Or, having an affair with a married women in the bed she shares with her husband. Isn't that where Don and the musician wife's trysts took place? I don't think Betty has come near the low brow ness of Don. At least she was separated from Don when her dalliance occured. |
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Registered User Posts: 82 Join Date: Oct 2008 |
Posted: 27 Oct 2008 17:34
My comment wasn't meant as a double standard, nor was it meant to personally judge her actions. Don came from "low brow" roots, not the proper, upper middle-class roots that Betty came from. In 1960s standards, we expect uncultured behavior from Don. But ladies like Betty wouldn't a) consider abortion b) go to a bar alone or c) have a one-night stand.
Again, I'm talking about the 1960s and the morals and ethics present then. I'm reflecting personal opinion, just putting her in context of her time. Last night she was a social and chronological anachronism. Don was not. Which is why I called her "low brow", purposely putting those words in quotes to reflect the standards of the time. It's uncharacteristic for her, where it's not for him. That's all I meant to suggest. |
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Registered User Currently Offline Posts: 151 Join Date: Oct 2008 |
Posted: 27 Oct 2008 17:38
A few thoughts on Betty -
At first I thought her infidelity was an impulsive act. The more I thought about it, however, the more it seemed she had been working up to this moment all season: seeing her friend who had become a call girl living a seemingly glamorous life with no ill effects; the "tease" she gave the tow-truck driver shortly after seeing her friend; the "tease"with Arthur; her manipulation of Arthur and Sarah Beth (perhaps a dress rehearsal for her own affair ?). I also got the sense that at the end of Ep. 13, when Betty sits down to talk to Don, she makes what seems to be a "false start" in announcing her pregnancy. I have to watch it again, but didn't she start by saying "I...", trail off, and then switch to "I'm..."? With all the confessions going on, I thought she started with the idea of telling Don what she had done, thought better of it during the pause, and instead told him she was pregnant. Up till that moment, she had seemed firm in her resolve to terminate the pregnancy. Perhaps Don's letter changed her mind, brought out some hidden guilt about what she had done. She then decided to keep the child, hoping (as many did then and unfortunately still do today) that a baby would heal the breach and strengthen their marriage. In retrospect, throughout the season she has seemed to vacillate between "good girl/bad girl" aspects of her personality, and this was her way of resolving that tension. She was a "bad girl", perhaps empowering herself and getting revenge with the guy in the back room of the bar but made up for it by being a "good girl", sticking with Don and keeping the baby. Then again, I thought of all this stuff at 2am this morning and like a lot of things one thinks of during the wee hours, it doesn't seem quite as plausible under the full light of day... |
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Registered User Currently Offline Posts: 98 Join Date: Oct 2008 |
Posted: 27 Oct 2008 18:57
A few comments about Pete’s gun. He returned the latest invention a “Chip&Dip” that was a wedding present from Trudy’s aunt for the gun.
People from other blogs keep referring to it as a shotgun. It’s a .22 caliber the smallest “boy” gun you can buy, my wife got one when she was 13. All the guys were giddy in the office about his rifle which might speak to their protected upper class where no one hunts or shoots or they would know it was a kid's gun. Hemmingway blew his head off with a shotgun. It's not uncommon for people to survive getting shot in the head with a .22. When Pete had his rife in the office just after he bought it, it showed him pointing it at women in the office with a point of view looking down the barrel. Pete doesn’t like women, starting with Ma Campbell. Pete holding the rifle in his office was the same reason he bought it – he needed a sense of power and manly comfort. I’ve know several gun-nuts that fall into a classic ‘Freudian’ barrel is an extension of their penis. Along with playing both sides with tipping Don off about the merger and Duck becoming President he made a comment that was supposed to give Don advise. The US made a move with the blockade and that “made the Russians back down.” I think he was rooting for Don to stand up and make Duck backdown. We can’t be too hard on Father Gill. He is under the impression that Peggy had an affair with a married man and had his child. That’s’ right up there in the top ten Thou Shall Nots. (not like eating meat on Fridays) With the end of the world lurking why wouldn’t, if he cared for Peggy, ask her to follow the doctrine of the Church to save her soul? She did feel better after she confessed to Pete. |
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Registered User Currently Offline Posts: 13 Join Date: Oct 2008 |
Posted: 27 Oct 2008 19:59
Adgal...my apologies for putting you on the defense. It was not my intention. I was only giving my input too.
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Registered User Posts: 82 Join Date: Oct 2008 |
Posted: 27 Oct 2008 20:30
That's cool, Piper.
So, do you think Pete's more likely to use the shotgun on himself... or could he be thinking of going postal on the after-hours gang at Sterling Cooper? We know Don went home. And Peggy is on her way to catching a train. But I'll bet Duck, the partners, and Joan are still there. When Peggy told him about the baby, I was thinking he would end up using it against her. It would come out that she had a baby and he would demand to have his child back. Such a sad scene because I think he truly felt he loved Peggy. The way said "did you really not know?" as though it was his grand admission of love. For someone like Pete to be rejected like that... there's no telling what he would do. And what if he does commit suicide or hurt someone else? Only Peggy will know why. And she'll have to carry around the burden of that, too. Interesting to think about. But I think if he was going to go postal, that would have happened in the season finale, leaving us until next season to see who survived. |
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Registered User Currently Offline Posts: 14 Join Date: Oct 2008 |
Posted: 27 Oct 2008 22:03
Did people even go postal in those days? I thought that was more of a recent phenomenon. Besides, like James commented, who's going postal with a .22 cal rifle, "red ryder bb-gun?"
It was refreshing to see Don return. I was expecting a sitdown talk but I felt the letter he wrote was very contrite, "...without you, I will be alone forever." I also liked very much the line Peter suggested after given Don the fair warning about the merger and Duck's intent. "I bet the Russians are reconsidering now that we've taken a stand." Brilliant. |
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Registered User Currently Offline Posts: 151 Join Date: Oct 2008 |
Posted: 27 Oct 2008 23:14 Last Edited By: jkerouac59
Pete's exchange with Peggy probably humbled him more than losing the Clearasil account. His reach is outstripping his grasp in his love for Peggy - the combination of their personalities would not have lead to a happy match. I think Peggy intuits this fact. She talks about how she could have forced him to be with her "forever" but chose instead not to.
Think of how angry Pete was in Season One the night they went to celebrate at the bar, and Peggy danced over to him to invite him to join her and he replied through gritted teeth "I don't like you like this". As it stands, Pete's overall resentment of women prohibits him from truly loving Peggy, Trudi or any other. I think there's a series of moments in everyone's life when they begin to perceive that they may not have the innate qualities required to be the person they aspire to be (to paraphrase Jack Aubrey). This is perhaps Pete's first inkling there's a significant defect in his character that just might prevent him from becoming the man he wants to be. He wants to be successful, respected and loved - all things each of us wants out of life. In Ep. 13, he gains a measure of that respect through Don's expression of trust. Peggy, however, is perhaps the first individual he's encountered thus far in his life that could fulfill each of those desires - but he can't control her, dominate her or have her. My take on it is that he's sitting there alone in the dark, thinking that he's perhaps blown everything and doesn't see a way to recover from it. Is he thinking of using the .22 on himself - sure. But he won't - it's not in him. Suicide would be an explicit admission of failure - something Pete never does. |
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Registered User Currently Offline Posts: 29 Join Date: Oct 2008 |
Posted: 28 Oct 2008 00:19
Something tells me Duck's drinking and his temper will really f**k up things for him at SC.
I thought Peggy's baby was with her sister (?) What's Father Gill up to? Enough with the Catholic guilt trips already!!! |
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Registered User Currently Offline Posts: 98 Join Date: Oct 2008 |
Posted: 28 Oct 2008 01:07
Jetsetter-
As a former Catholic there were several screwy things about Church doctrine that made me want to leave. But, Father Gill is acting out of love and compassion for Peggy. Its bombs away in Oct 1962 and seemingly closer than we all are to final judgment. Peggy is sitting in a pew every week, what’s the point if you don’t follow the bare basic tenants of the faith you’re a member of? In this case it’s to confess your sins. If you were to join a Buddhist Temple and didn’t want to chant…maybe Monk Gill would want to have a word with you. Adultery with married man is/was a biggy for Catholics. It’s not the sin per say – it’s the non confessing part (to a priest) that’s the rub. And thank goodness for the existence of Hell. I hope Tony Soprano, Chris, and his assorted pals aren’t going to be hanging out with Peggy in Heaven. Maybe putting the baby “up for adoption” in Peggy’s mind is the same thing as allowing or giving it to her sister to adopt or raise. A forerunner to today’s open adoption? OR maybe she didn’t want Pete to know the details for fear that he would want to track down and see his child. The strong argument even for today for closed adoptions. |
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Registered User Posts: 82 Join Date: Oct 2008 |
Posted: 28 Oct 2008 01:38
There is a baby at Peggy's sister's house. However, Peggy's sister was pregnant at the same time Peggy was. I don't think the show has ever been clear on who the baby at Peggy's sister's is. She was encouraged to go in and look at the baby once, but that could anything. Maybe it's her baby. Or maybe it's just her mother trying to make her feel guilty.
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Registered User Currently Offline Posts: 21 Join Date: Sep 2008 |
Posted: 28 Oct 2008 06:22
What a great season-ender! Glad to see Don come back refreshed, his time with Anna was good for him. I was disappointed in Betty's choice, but if she got something of value out of her dalliance, more power to her.
Poor Pete. Frustrated at home and the office, just when things start going well in his professional life, he is served a huge steaming pile of his personal one. I thought Peggy was a bit harsh at first, but really, Pete absolutely deserved what he got from her. And maybe he's doing some serious soul-searching with that gun on his lap. Duck is instantly turned into Lame Duck! Finding out that he doesn't have a contract, means that Don can walk out the door, take the profits from the merger, create his own shop, and take every last client from Sterling/Cooper with him. Now the question is, who will be the guy running SC? Maybe it's Bert Cooper's opportunity to keep his hands in the business, after all. Which bodes well for everyone. Can't wait for Season 3 ! |
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Registered User Currently Offline Posts: 13 Join Date: Oct 2008 |
Posted: 28 Oct 2008 16:37
Just and FYI...On the AMC Mad Men forum is an interview with Marc Weimer. In this interview Weimer states that Peggy's sister is not raising Peggy's child. Weimer also discusses Betty's one night stand and Saturday Night Live.
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Registered User Currently Offline Posts: 48 Join Date: Sep 2008 |
Posted: 28 Oct 2008 18:16
The coolest and most surprising was Don. After Epi 12, I'd have bet anything that he would return home AFTER the news of the missile crisis broke. His return home and admission of guilt ('I was disrespectful') came ahead of that news. Don is the only character in epi 13 whose "confession" wasn't a reaction to the "end of the world" crisis. It made a big impression on me.
James: I liked your take on Pete and his rifle, I hadn't considered the Freudian aspects. I don't think he's going "postal" or contemplating suicide as some suggested. To me the rifle was kinda like his security blanket. His wife and the woman he loves have both abandoned him. The rifle seems like the only thing he has left that he truly loves. PiperLaurie: Here's what I think about Betty looking at the mannequins in the store window. She's seeing herself and her roommate Juanita as they used to be, two young NY fashion models with bright futures, one of the mannequins blonde, the other brunette. As she contemplates them her reflection is apparent in the glass, a sad suburban wife with an unfaithful husband and an unwanted pregnancy. And the world is coming to an end. No wonder she walked into that bar. I was relieved, happy to see Peggy stand up to Fr Gill and leave him stunned & speachless. As a lapsed brain-washed Catholic I was cheering! Thanks, Don for hosting this site. It's been fun! |
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Registered User Currently Offline Posts: 151 Join Date: Oct 2008 |
Posted: 28 Oct 2008 18:40
Peggy - nice take on Betty and the store window.
Gotta think about the rifle symbolism though - if I'm not mistaken, Pete was so "pumped" after he found out he wasn't "shooting blanks", that he picked up a blonde he encountered...have to go back and look. It surely won't talk back to him and will do what he wants it to without protest. Perhaps he was thinking of that story that he told Peggy right after he got the rifle back in Season One that seemed to light her fire - it was about killing an animal in the woods and dragging it home to a cabin where a woman was waiting to cook up a big old hunk of it it in a cast iron skillet on an old wood fired stove for him - didn't Peggy swoon over that? |
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Registered User Currently Offline Posts: 22 Join Date: Oct 2008 |
Posted: 28 Oct 2008 19:15
I think you all have pretty much covered every possible angle of the seasons end. Just a few comments.
Pete just got THE PROMOTION that he has been waiting for, this gave him the confidence to send Trudy to her parents and confess his love for Peggy. He finally been validated by the men at SC, both Duck and Don so its safe to say he not going to pull any triggers. I agree with jkerouac59, hes got serious anger issues towards women. The only reason he was in love with peggy was because she consistently kept him at a distance, he doesn't really know her, he loves an idea of her. Mommy really did a number on Pete. Peggy nice take on the store window scene, I agree. I was also thinking that she was reflecting on her own image. Looking at the window seeing the idea of being rich, beautiful, and perfect. A divorce would shatter that image for her, she would never appear perfect to the world again. Its like she makes a decision to stay with Don at that point, but her anger and revenge propelled her to the room with the HOT stranger. Its almost like an eye for an eye was what she needed to accept Don back into her life. Peggy is Brilliant and my favorite character...I'm changing my avatar right away. Its like her role in this show is to break down barriers and she does it with this quiet yet aggressive innocence. With father Gill, its like she looked the church in the face and told him that she does believe in God, but she believes that God is much more loving and gracious than father gill can understand. She pushes back! Breaks down yet another barrier and challenges Him to examine the doctrine of grace. She did it with Pete TOO! She tells him that she has a right to choose and HER choice wasn't to be barefoot and pregnant and his wife! She says she wanted other things. In the office, she breaks down every barrier, even her own office, landing accounts....shes awesome on every level! Don and Betty are just at the beginning of figuring out how they are going to stay together...I think we have just been introduced to how they plan to make it work. If he keeps up his whoring, I think its safe to say Betty is going to find her a side piece too. Weiner has been trying to let us know this for a long time now. Does anyone remember her fantasy with the air Conditioner salesman? Even her weird relationship with Glen demonstrated her need for an emotional connection with someone else. I hope her lover next season is totally HOT!!! |
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Registered User Currently Offline Posts: 151 Join Date: Oct 2008 |
Posted: 28 Oct 2008 19:30
Laadgirl - you're absolutely right - let's never forget that Betty's first "dalliance" was with a washing machine!
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Administrator Currently Offline Posts: 59 Join Date: Sep 2008 |
Posted: 28 Oct 2008 21:29
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Laadgirl - you're absolutely right - let's never forget that Betty's first "dalliance" was with a washing machine! ... while thinking about the traveling salesman! |
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Registered User Currently Offline Posts: 151 Join Date: Oct 2008 |
Posted: 28 Oct 2008 23:44
Wonder if his name was"Maytag"? Maybe "Ken More"?
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Registered User Currently Offline Posts: 9 Join Date: Oct 2008 |
Posted: 29 Oct 2008 01:25
You all are right on. Thanks for giving me insight into the Mad Men players. As per Don, he's much more comfortable expressing his feelings in writing - no wonder he never said anything at the end of the episode. Thanks for having this site - it's been a pleasure reading everyone's take on the show. Cheers!
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Registered User Currently Offline Posts: 29 Join Date: Oct 2008 |
Posted: 29 Oct 2008 01:35
So many loose ends to tie up--with the minor characters as well. I'd love to see more of the dark and dirty side of Salvatore's life.
Will Lois ever get off the switchboard? (Peggy needs a secretary..) Also--In season 3 I really hope we get to see more of Alice, Bert's sister.. Does anyone know when season 3 will premiere? Can't wait... |
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Registered User Posts: 82 Join Date: Oct 2008 |
Posted: 29 Oct 2008 02:04
Peggy, you're right. Don is the only one whose confession didn't seem to be encouraged by the crisis. Interesting.
And LAadGirl, I agree with you about Peggy. She's becoming my favorite character, too. I find both her and Joan very compelling. It's interesting that the writers are somewhat allowing a shift in the main character of the show. I mean, Don's still the main character, but Peggy is coming up fast on his tail. She's definitely moved into a major position. They're like the Adam and Eve of the modern business world and the apple represents power. |
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Registered User Currently Offline Posts: 48 Join Date: Sep 2008 |
Posted: 29 Oct 2008 16:48
"Ken More" !!! Jkerouac, you had me ROTFLOL. Thanks for the humor. That is priceless!
And great posts all around here. Thanks everyone for sharing thought-provoking insights. I look forward to hanging out with all of you here at the Lounge in Season 3. |
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Registered User Currently Offline Posts: 4 Join Date: Jan 2009 |
Posted: 09 Feb 2009 03:59
... while thinking about the traveling salesman!
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